{"id":3671,"date":"2022-06-22T13:59:09","date_gmt":"2022-06-22T12:59:09","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/?p=3671"},"modified":"2022-06-22T14:08:25","modified_gmt":"2022-06-22T13:08:25","slug":"de-ce-o-istorie-genetica-a-romanilor-nu-este-posibila-demonstratia-lui-m-netea","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/de-ce-o-istorie-genetica-a-romanilor-nu-este-posibila-demonstratia-lui-m-netea\/","title":{"rendered":"De ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103\u00a0:\u00a0demonstra\u021bia lui M. Netea"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<p>Pozitia autorului c\u0103r\u0163ii&nbsp;<em>O istorie genetic\u0103 (incomplet\u0103) a rom\u00e2nilor<\/em>&nbsp;(Humanitas) asa cum reiese din interviul acordat lui Lucian Popescu de la Contributor.ro (nu am putut achizitiona \u00eenc\u0103 cartea) mi se pare binevenit\u0103 tocmai pentru c\u0103 arat\u0103 de ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103. Inconvenientul este c\u0103 M. Netea nu rezist\u0103 la tenta\u0163ia de a reconstitui anumite momente ale istoriei rom\u00e2nilor \u00een func\u0163ie de propriile lui p\u0103reri, mai mult sau mai pu\u0163in \u00een acord cu versiunea consacrat\u0103 de istoriografia rom\u00e2neasc\u0103 privind formarea poporului rom\u00e2n. O istorie f\u0103r\u0103 leg\u0103tur\u0103 cu istoria genetic\u0103 anun\u0163at\u0103 \u00een titlu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<!--more-->\n\n\n\n<p>Metoda adoptat\u0103 \u015fi demonstra\u0163ia propus\u0103 M. Netea reies destul de clar din extrasele care urmeaz\u0103\u00a0:<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u00ab&nbsp;Acum dou\u0103zeci de ani au fost dezvoltate metodologiile de izolare a ADN-ului uman din oasele care se g\u0103seau \u00een situri arheologice. \u0218i pentru prima dat\u0103 este posibil s\u0103 analiz\u0103m ADN-ul str\u0103mo\u0219ilor no\u0219tri, ceea ce d\u0103 o precizie crescut\u0103 anumitor ipoteze \u0219tiin\u021bifice. \u00cenainte vedeai un schelet, se f\u0103ceau m\u0103sur\u0103tori fizice, puteai s\u0103 vezi m\u0103rimea, forma, se tr\u0103geau anumite concluzii.&nbsp;\u00bb&nbsp;Afl\u0103m astfel c\u0103 \u00een structura genetic\u0103 a str\u0103mo\u015fii rom\u00e2nilor \u015fi a popoarelor din jur intervin trei componente. Una vine din paleolitic, aproximativ 30 %, a doua din neolitic,&nbsp;&nbsp;50 %.&nbsp;&nbsp;A treia, cam 20 %, result\u0103 din&nbsp;&nbsp;\u201cinfluen\u0163\u0103 indoeuropean\u0103 care migreaz\u0103 \u00een Europa acum 3 500 de ani din stepele de la nord de Marea Neagr\u0103, cele care aduc limbile indo-europene, inclusiv daca\u201d.&nbsp;Eventuale diferen\u0163e \u00eentre acest genom mostenit de rom\u00e2nii de azi de acela al celorlalte popoare din jur nu sunt indicate \u00een interviu.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u00ab&nbsp;Noi am secven\u021bionat pentru prima oar\u0103 craniul de la Pe\u0219tera Muierii \u0219i am caracterizat \u00een detaliu ADN-ul paleolitic al primilor oameni care au tr\u0103it \u00een Europa, acum \u00een jur de 36 000 de ani. Craniul de la Pe\u0219tera cu Oase a fost studiat de colegi din Germania \u0219i Statele Unite. \u00cen acela\u0219i timp, am f\u0103cut \u0219i c\u00e2teva studii la popula\u021bii rom\u00e2ne\u0219ti contemporane, ca s\u0103 putem face compara\u021bia \u0219i am ar\u0103tat omogenitatea rom\u00e2nilor din punct de vedere genetic. Practic, sunt extrem de pu\u021bine diferen\u021be \u00eentre ardeleni, munteni, etc. Arcul carpatic a fost o barier\u0103 genetic\u0103 foarte penetrabil\u0103, foarte poroas\u0103, foarte slab\u0103, rom\u00e2nii din punct de vedere genetic sunt foarte omogeni. Sunt foarte omogeni \u00eentre ei, dar \u00een acela\u0219i timp exist\u0103 o mare asem\u0103nare din punct de vedere genetic cu popoarele din jurul nostru.&nbsp;\u00bb<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Raspunsul la \u00eentrebarea&nbsp;: \u00ab&nbsp;<em>Dar ce ne deosebe\u0219te de popoarele din jurul nostru&nbsp;? este formal<\/em>&nbsp;: &nbsp;Din punct de vedere genetic, aproape nimic. Ne deosebe\u0219te limba, cultura, de acolo vine con\u0219tiin\u021ba na\u021bional\u0103, faptul c\u0103 ne sim\u021bim altfel dec\u00e2t vecinii no\u0219tri maghiari sau bulgari sau s\u00e2rbi.&nbsp;Cultura \u0219i limba, obiceiurile \u0219i mult mai pu\u021bin genetica.\u201d<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><em>La \u00eentrebarea&nbsp;: Ce fel de popula\u021bie sunt arom\u00e2nii?<\/em>&nbsp;Mihai Netea r\u0103spunde&nbsp;:&nbsp; \u00ab&nbsp;din punct de vedere genetic, \u00eenc\u0103 o dat\u0103, la fel ca toate popula\u021biile balcanice, popula\u021bia arom\u00e2n\u0103 este foarte \u00eenrudit\u0103 cu celelalte. Au fost c\u00e2teva studii foarte bine f\u0103cute de colegii din Spania, care au studiat popula\u021biile arom\u00e2ne, \u00eempreun\u0103 cu popula\u021biile din jur care, bine\u00een\u021beles, \u0219i-au dat acordul \u0219i nu au reu\u0219it s\u0103 le deosebeasc\u0103 de popula\u021biile din jurul lor. La fel cum nici noi nu ne putem deosebi de celalalte popula\u021bii.&nbsp;\u00bb<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Indica\u0163iile lare preced permit deci s\u0103 vorbim nu de o istorie a poporului rom\u00e2n ci eventual de o \u00eendep\u0103rtat\u0103 preistorie a lui \u015fi a celorlalte popoare din jur \u015fi chiar de mai departe. Pornind de la aceast\u0103 omogeneitate la nivel preistoric putem trage concluzia c\u0103 toate aceste popoare, inclusiv cel de limb\u0103 maghiar\u0103, neindoeuropean\u0103, care e adoptat\u0103 \u00een urma migra\u0163ilor provenite din Asia, sunt europeene. P\u00e2na \u015fi consecin\u0163ele celei mai recente migra\u0163ii din subcontinentul indian, aceea a romilor, sunt limitate. Practic, \u00ab&nbsp;\u0219i popula\u021bia rom\u0103, de\u0219i mai \u00eencet dec\u00e2t alte popula\u021bii, este \u00eencet-\u00eencet asimilat\u0103 de popula\u021biile europene. Genetica popula\u021biei rome este \u00een momentul acesta 70% european\u0103&nbsp;\u00bb, explic\u0103 autorul.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Cu alte cuvinte, o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor&nbsp;<em>stricto sensu<\/em>&nbsp;este exclus\u0103. Istoria lor este aceea a tuturor popoarelor din zona \u00een care au evoluat rom\u00e2nii, a c\u0103ror preistorie este de asemenea \u00een buna parte comun\u0103. Concluzia este reconfortant\u0103 av\u00e2nd \u00een vedere c\u0103 ea \u00eenl\u0103tur\u0103 radical nenum\u0103ratele supozi\u0163ii fanteziste aliment\u00e2nd tot felul de stereotipuri mai ales negative a c\u0103ror autori \u015fi amatori nu ezit\u0103 s\u0103 invoce argumente genetice de la o vreme \u00eencoace.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Din acest punct de vedere putem repro\u015fa autorului \u015fi editorului titlul c\u0103r\u0163ii: mai indicat ar fi fost \u201cpreistoria rom\u00e2nilor\u201d. Titlul nu e totu\u015fi dec\u00e2t pe jum\u0103tate \u00een\u015fel\u0103tor, av\u00e2nd \u00een vedere c\u0103 nu lipsesc din discursul autorului o serie de considera\u0163ii privind istoria rom\u00e2nilor. El precizeaz\u0103 c\u0103 nu este istoric, cea ce nu \u00eel \u00eempiedic\u0103 s\u0103 reconstituie pornind de la datele \u015fi ipotezele disponibile, furnizate mai ales de istoriografia rom\u00e2neasc\u0103, istoria rom\u00e2nilor. Ori aceast\u0103 istorie nu are nicio leg\u0103tura cu genetica, ba chiar este relativizat\u0103 atunci c\u00e2nd este contrazis\u0103 de contra-argumentele genetice propuse chiar de autor.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dou\u0103 exemple.&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(1)\u00ab&nbsp;Din punct de vedere genetic nu putem face niciun fel de ipotez\u0103 cum c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii ar fi rom\u00e2ni pleca\u021bi \u00een ultimele secole sau c\u0103 au fost o popula\u021bie vorbitoare de limba latin\u0103 care migreaz\u0103 \u00een sud&nbsp;\u00bb, spune pe de o parte autorul. Aceasta nu \u00eel \u00eempiedc\u0103 s\u0103 mearg\u0103 mai departe f\u0103c\u00e2nd la r\u00e2ndul lui o ipotez\u0103&nbsp;:&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>\u00ab&nbsp;P\u0103rerea mea este c\u0103 migra\u021bia slav\u0103 masiv\u0103 care are loc spre teritoriile din sudul Dun\u0103rii \u0219i formeaz\u0103, Serbia, Bulgaria \u0219amd mai t\u00e2rziu, \u00eempinge popula\u021biile romanice care tr\u0103iau \u00een direct contact cu ceea ce va deveni poporul roman \u00een nordul Dun\u0103rii \u0219i le \u00eemping \u00een nordul Greciei, \u00een mun\u021bii Epirului. (\u2026) eu cred c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii au fost cu noi \u00eempreun\u0103 \u00een primele faze ale form\u0103rii poporului roman \u0219i apoi au fost \u00eempin\u0219i de migra\u021biile ulterioare din evul mediu timpuriu spre nordul Greciei.&nbsp;\u00bb&nbsp;<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Aceast scenariu propus de M. Netea face parte din multiplele ipoteze existente dar neconfirmate documentar. Aparent, genetica nu ne duce nici ea mai departe.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>(2) \u00ab&nbsp;P\u0103rerea mea personal\u0103 este c\u0103 primii pa\u0219i ai form\u0103rii limbii rom\u00e2ne s-au f\u0103cut pe ambele maluri ale Dun\u0103rii. \u0218i Dun\u0103rea reprezenta mai mult o coloan\u0103 vertebral\u0103 dec\u00e2t o grani\u021b\u0103 \u00een acest proces&nbsp;\u00bb, sus\u0163ine autorul la un moment dat, dup\u0103 care revine \u00een termenii urm\u0103tori, nu mai pu\u0163in categorici :&nbsp;\u00ab&nbsp;Dup\u0103 p\u0103rerea mea&nbsp; poporul rom\u00e2n s-a format categoric \u00een principal la nordul Dun\u0103rii, dar av\u00e2nd o component\u0103 unitar\u0103, la \u00eenceput, \u00een primele faze, cu o parte a provinciilor romane din sudul Dun\u0103rii.&nbsp;\u00bb<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/twitter.com\/intent\/tweet?text=Din+punct+de+vedere+genetic%2C+daci+suntem+cam+20%25.+50%25+din+genele+noastre+apar%C8%9Bin+popula%C8%9Biei+venite+aici+%C3%AEn+neolitic.+Interviu+cu+cercet%C4%83torul+Mihai+Netea&amp;url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.contributors.ro%2Fdin-punct-de-vedere-genetic-daci-suntem-cam-20-50-din-genele-noastre-apartin-populatiei-venita-aici-in-neolitic-interviu-cu-cercetatorul-mihai-netea%2F&amp;via=Contributors\"><\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/pinterest.com\/pin\/create\/button\/?url=https:\/\/www.contributors.ro\/din-punct-de-vedere-genetic-daci-suntem-cam-20-50-din-genele-noastre-apartin-populatiei-venita-aici-in-neolitic-interviu-cu-cercetatorul-mihai-netea\/&amp;media=&amp;description=Din+punct+de+vedere+genetic%2C+daci+suntem+cam+20%25.+50%25+din+genele+noastre+apar%C8%9Bin+popula%C8%9Biei+venite+aici+%C3%AEn+neolitic.+Interviu+cu+cercet%C4%83torul+Mihai+Netea\"><\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Pozitia autorului c\u0103r\u0163ii&nbsp;O istorie genetic\u0103 (incomplet\u0103) a rom\u00e2nilor&nbsp;(Humanitas) asa cum reiese din interviul acordat lui Lucian Popescu de la Contributor.ro (nu am putut achizitiona \u00eenc\u0103 cartea) mi se pare binevenit\u0103 tocmai pentru c\u0103 arat\u0103 de ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103. Inconvenientul este c\u0103 M. Netea nu rezist\u0103 la tenta\u0163ia de a [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-3671","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-habari-news"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v25.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>De ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103\u00a0:\u00a0demonstra\u021bia lui M. Netea - TRA ARMANAMI<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/de-ce-o-istorie-genetica-a-romanilor-nu-este-posibila-demonstratia-lui-m-netea\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"De ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103\u00a0:\u00a0demonstra\u021bia lui M. Netea - TRA ARMANAMI\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Pozitia autorului c\u0103r\u0163ii&nbsp;O istorie genetic\u0103 (incomplet\u0103) a rom\u00e2nilor&nbsp;(Humanitas) asa cum reiese din interviul acordat lui Lucian Popescu de la Contributor.ro (nu am putut achizitiona \u00eenc\u0103 cartea) mi se pare binevenit\u0103 tocmai pentru c\u0103 arat\u0103 de ce o istorie genetic\u0103 a rom\u00e2nilor nu este posibil\u0103. 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