{"id":1044,"date":"2017-07-04T09:05:53","date_gmt":"2017-07-04T08:05:53","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/?p=1044"},"modified":"2017-07-05T14:18:08","modified_gmt":"2017-07-05T13:18:08","slug":"aromanians-are-not-romanians-discutie-pe-facebook","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/aromanians-are-not-romanians-discutie-pe-facebook\/","title":{"rendered":"Aromanians are NOT Romanians : discutie pe Facebook"},"content":{"rendered":"<p>Sia Sya, Bogdan Rusu, Dinu Popescu (autorul) si editorul articolului &#8220;Aromanians are NOT Romanians. Demonstration&#8221; au dezbatut pe aceasta tema pe Facebook imediat dupa postarea lui pe 23 iunie 2017.\u00a0[<em>Cf<\/em>. http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/dinu-popescu-aromanians-are-not-romanians-demonstration\/#more-1022]<\/p>\n<p><!--more--><\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p>Cea mai frumoasa caracterizare a articolului lui D. Popescu figureaza \u00eensa \u00eentr-o comunicare \u00a0care mi-a fost adresata personal, deci nu voi da numele autorului. Iat-o :<\/p>\n<blockquote><p>&#8220;Bun\u0103! Argumentele \u00a0cu limbile slave &#8211; mi se par foarte binevenite. Problema c\u0103 este \u00a0\u00a0proto -roman\u0103 \u0219i nu proto -rom\u00e2na \u00a0 nici nu trebuie s\u0103 fii prea \u00a0lingvist ca s\u0103-\u021bi dai seama..de asta&#8230;Poate bietul autor nu \u0219tie c\u0103 noi aici \u00een Rom\u00e2nia \u0219tim de mult c\u0103 lingvi\u0219tii se scarpin\u0103 cu m\u00e2na st\u00e2ng\u0103 dreapt\u0103 la urechea st\u00e2ng\u0103, ca s\u0103-\u0219i \u00a0fac\u0103 loc \u00een lumea academic\u0103 \u0219i c\u0103 ne-am \u00eenv\u0103\u021bat s\u0103 le descifr\u0103m sub\u00een\u021be\u021besurile . c\u0103 altfel ri\u0219ti s\u0103 fii aruncat de pe cel mai \u00eenalt piedestal \u00een cea mai crunt\u0103 dizgra\u021bie.\u00a0Nu \u0219tiu cine este autorul, cred c\u0103 nu este din Rom\u00e2nia dar pentru asta putem s\u0103-i mul\u021bumim c\u0103 a avut curajul s\u0103 o spun\u0103, N-a\u0219 vrea s\u0103 cread\u0103 c\u0103 noi ..nu ne-am dat seama de asta&#8230;&#8221;<\/p><\/blockquote>\n<p>Datele despre autor sunt acelea pe care d\u00e2nsul le-a furnizat sitului Tr\u00e2 arm\u00e2namea. Putem certifica ca D. Popescu, care semneaza probabil sub un pseudonim, traieste \u00een Rom\u00e2nia, ceea ce nu schimba mare lucru \u00een argumentatia contributiei sale. \u00centr-un mesaj publicat pe Forumul Arm\u00e2namea, Goran Pushuticlu emite o serie dubii privind at\u00e2t autorul c\u00e2t si articolul sau. Nu putem dec\u00e2t sa reamintim ceea ce am precizat de la bun \u00eenceput si anume ca titlul articolului este acela ales de autor si ca acest articol se prezenta initial sub forma unei reactii trimise pentru validare la doua articole publicate pe situl Tr\u00e2 arm\u00e2nami (despre Nida Boga si N.-S. Tanasoca) de D. Popescu.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\"><strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Inca un argument pentru faptul ca limba-mama a romanei, aromanei, meglenitei si istrienei\/jeianenei nu ar trebui sa fie numita nici proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103, nici proto-arom\u00e2n\u0103, ci romana (dupa modelul reto-romanei, careia, asa cum am spus, nimeni nu ii spune \u201creto-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d) est-balcanica, proto-romana est-balcanica, romanica est-balcanica sau proto-romanica est-balcanica.&gt;&gt; Deci limba mama este romana?<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853835971452406&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D\">23 juin, 13:22<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Eu am propus 4 variante, 2 dintre ele continand cuvantul &#8220;roman\u0103&#8221;, 2 &#8220;romanica&#8221;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853835971452406&amp;reply_comment_id=853903551445648&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:20<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Care este diferenta?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853835971452406&amp;reply_comment_id=853905404778796&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:24<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Sia Sya Cititi cu atentia comparatia cu limbile\/popoarele slave rasaritene. Diferenta e ca si rusii zic ca ucraineana\/belarusa\/rusyna sunt dialecte ale rusei comune, dupa cum si rom\u00e2nii afirma ca aromana, meglenita si istriana\/jeianeana sunt dialecte ale &#8220;rom\u00e2nei&#8221; comune. Deci trebuie gasit un nume pentru &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103&#8221; care sa nu contina elementul &#8220;rom\u00e2n&#8221;, deoarece limba respectiva nu e nici &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2na&#8221;, nici &#8220;proto-arom\u00e2na\/proto-arm\u00e2na&#8221;.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853835971452406&amp;reply_comment_id=854397254729611&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 10:22<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\"><strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0&#8211; cuv\u00e2ntul \u201erom\u00e2n\u201d este mai recent dec\u00e2t \u201eruman\u201d &#8211; dar ce pseudo-argument este \u0103sta? Cine nu \u0219tie c\u0103 acest cuv\u00e2nt a fost rectificat din \u201erum\u00e2n\u201d?<br \/>\n&#8211; apoi: argumenta\u021bie prin analogie privind numele limbii; dar ce argument \u00eencearc\u0103 autorul s\u0103 resping\u0103? exist\u0103 vreun lingvist care s\u0103 fi sus\u021binut c\u0103 arom\u00e2na e un dialect al limbii rom\u00e2ne pentru c\u0103 ambele sunt derivate de la \u201eroman\u201d?<br \/>\n&#8211; cel de-al doilea argument din acela\u0219i paragraf este mai pertinent. \u00eentr-adev\u0103r, exist\u0103 limbi romanice reciproc comprehensibile \u00eentr-un grad mult mai mare dec\u00e2t rom\u00e2na \u0219i arom\u00e2na, de exemlplu franceza \u0219i picarda sau, \u00een acela\u0219i spa\u021biu, walona \u0219i picarda. \u00cen acela\u0219i timp, evolu\u021bia diacronic\u0103 a limbilor pune probleme de incomprehesibilitate: limba \u00eentr-o faz\u0103 de evolu\u021bie mai \u00eendep\u0103rtat\u0103 poate s\u0103 nu fie comprehensibil\u0103 pentru cei din prezent; argumentul nu e concluziv. Nici criteriul comprehensibilit\u0103\u021bii reciproce nu este absolut \u0219i, de unul singur, nu \u00eendrept\u0103\u021be\u0219te nicio concluzie tran\u0219ant\u0103.<br \/>\nP\u00e2n\u0103 acum autorul nu a formulat niciun argument satisf\u0103c\u0103tor pentru teza lui, anume c\u0103 arom\u00e2na e limb\u0103 \u0219i nu dialect.<br \/>\nTrece apoi la \u201echestiunea stabilirii unui nume pentru proto-limba comuna\u201d. Putem s\u0103-i spunem R.00 \u00een ce m\u0103 prive\u0219te. De ce este aceasta o problem\u0103 de importan\u021b\u0103 \u0219tiin\u021bific\u0103? Iar\u0103\u0219i, cine nu \u0219tie c\u0103 aceste limbi romanice r\u0103s\u0103ritene au evoluat din latina vernacular\u0103? Care este interesul s\u0103 botez\u0103m latina vernacular\u0103 a unei epoci \u201eroman\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103\u201d? \u0218i de ce ar fi \u0219tiin\u021bific gre\u0219it s\u0103 numim aceast\u0103 \u201eroman\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103\u201d str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103 sau proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103?<\/p>\n<p>Ca de obicei \u00een dezbaterea asta, exist\u0103 tot felul de presupozi\u021bii extra-\u0219tiin\u021bifice. Cel mai deranjant este etnicismul atorului, un etnicism de secol XIX. Eu \u0219tiu c\u0103 o parte din belgieni, canadieni, elve\u021bieni au ca limb\u0103 matern\u0103 fraceza \u0219i, cu toate acestea, nu sunt considera\u021bi francezi. Chiar dac\u0103 arom\u00e2nii ar vorbi un dialect al limbii rom\u00e2ne, asta n-ar face din ei rom\u00e2ni, dec\u00e2t sub aceast\u0103 presupozi\u021bie etnicist\u0103. Chestiunea limb\u0103 \/ dialect nu este transat\u0103, pentru c\u0103 nu exist\u0103 cu adev\u0103rat criterii \u0219tiin\u021bifice, libere de orice imixtiune a politicului, care s\u0103 permit\u0103 tran\u0219area ei. Sunt arom\u00e2nii rom\u00e2ni? \u0102ia din Rom\u00e2nia, da. \u0102ia de aiurea, nu. Singurul sens clar, precis al termenului \u201erom\u00e2n\u201d este cel de cet\u0103\u021bean al Republicii Rom\u00e2nia (sau al statelor predecesoare); a \u00eentreba dac\u0103 x este rom\u00e2n \u00een orice alt sens este a formula o pseudo-\u00eentrebare.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D\">23 juin, 14:40<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Faptul ca rom\u00e2n a fost &#8220;rectificat&#8221; din \u201erum\u00e2n\u201d il face mai recent, adica rectificarea a avut loc ulterior. Aromana si rom\u00e2na nu au evoluat direct din latina populara, ci indirect dintr-o limba comuna, pe care &#8220;lingvistii&#8221; rom\u00e2ni o numesc incorect &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2na&#8221;, stra-, rom\u00e2na comuna etc. Lima latina e limba-bunica a aromanei.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=853902964779040&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:18<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Dinu Popescu rostul obiec\u021biei mele a fost c\u0103 de vechimea lui \u201erum\u00e2n\u201d trebuie s\u0103 ne ocup\u0103m, comparativ cu arm\u00e2n etc. Proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103 sau str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103 sunt termeni descriptivi, dac\u0103 x e str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103, adic\u0103 str\u0103mo\u0219 al rom\u00e2nei, nu \u00eenseamn\u0103 c\u0103, ipso facto, nu este \u0219i str\u0103mos al arom\u00e2nei, str\u0103-arm\u00e2n\u0103. chestiunea numelui \u201everigii lips\u0103\u201d (\u0219i, de altfel, nu cunosc argumente pentru existen\u021ba unei limbi romanice \u00eentre latina vulgar\u0103 \u0219i limbile romanice orientale moderne; \u00een qfqr\u0103 de torna retorna fratre mai exist\u0103 vreo urm\u0103?) are o importan\u021b\u0103 mai mult ideologic\u0103, asta este ceea ce cred eu.<\/p>\n<p>J\u2019aime \u00b7 R\u00e9pondre \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=853905391445464&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:24<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Patura comuna este limba traca, patura stra-traca este limba indo-europeana. Contexte ca cel de proto-romana si alte asemenea le consider stiintifico-fantastice.<\/p>\n<p>J\u2019aime\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=853908981445105&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:3<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=853908981445105&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:30<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Bogdan Rusu <a href=\"https:\/\/l.facebook.com\/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fro.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLimba_protorom%25C3%25A2n%25C4%2583&amp;h=ATMtxHORLJQaMSXAaoc9n4ZFfEDx9HOfNacY6K_n7oc1PS-Zae3dMQjkYt7n87bqMztFakGnmPosd1xMHBq4TWiXahoRvg2h_K8DcuZClHZ0a-LZLAtPkVYew2UUH6-hax4qWo7AIRB7mJW8oQ\">https:\/\/ro.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Limba_protorom%C3%A2n%C4%83<\/a> De ce trebuie numita aceasta limba &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103&#8221; si nu &#8220;proto-arm\u00e2n\u0103&#8221;? Se creeaza impresia ca rom\u00e2na e mai veche decat arom\u00e2na si ca ultima deriva din prima, ceea ce este fals. Un cuvant arom\u00e2n ca &#8220;oclju&#8221; nu deriva din &#8220;ochi&#8221;, este exact invers. Si comparatia cu limbile slave rasaritene arata acest lucru. Se poate face o oarecare analogie si cu ladina vs. latina (ladina e o limba romanica, neo-latina, ca si spaniola, italiana etc.). A spune ca arom\u00e2na e un dialect al proto-rom\u00e2nei sau ca arom\u00e2na e un dialect istoric al rom\u00e2nei (actuale) e ca si cum ai spune ca toate limbile romanice sunt dialecte istorice ale ladinei sau ca ele sunt dialecte ale &#8220;proto-ladinei&#8221;, adica ale latinei, doar pentru ca ladina a pastrat glotonimul latinei antice. Sau ca belaruse si rusyna sunt dialecte istorice ale rusei, cand ele provin toate din aceeasi proto-limba sau limba-mama (impreuna cu ucraineana).<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/l.facebook.com\/l.php?u=https%3A%2F%2Fro.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FLimba_protorom%25C3%25A2n%25C4%2583&amp;h=ATPAmbsx7ucrDVpocpA375p_FSdra3fuccChPxp1_5LPoiaxuvKUagJH1fsHWv-JNVd4Cl4PIgDqXkhANjMtovjg4jUD3gooqEs7KNxCmbIHgKcSn_1J3_32HxWim6k_UugDNbKotfcqp93AoA&amp;enc=AZNjMQDb5stY_o8my9vwRGeq81UovcB2nTmYG0VJcOZeqYdcZQTzjtnV9J_0Q7FQjREaRpAMz4AjiUiVP_d9kVoKG11seX1aZRejWU0pfLH0cAjevxSNzr1GiiHHCAw-rdp4bFw3HlhtcLhVsW8oD4FItwh_JHOP6AKXaDObDYy37A&amp;s=1\">\u202aLimba protorom\u00e2n\u0103 &#8211; Wikipedia<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u202aLimba protorom\u00e2n\u0103[1], numit\u0103 \u0219i rom\u00e2n\u0103 comun\u0103[2], rom\u00e2n\u0103 primitiv\u0103[3], rom\u00e2n\u0103 primitiv\u0103\u2026<\/p>\n<p>\u202a<\/p>\n<p>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=854187868083883&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 02:45<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Sia Sya &#8220;Proto-rom\u00e2na&#8221; in conceptia lingvistilor rom\u00e2ni nu inseamna limba traca. Nu inseamna ceva ne-romanic, adica pre-romanic\/tracic, desi &#8220;proto&#8221; asta sugereaza. Va rog cititi articolul din wikipedia despre asa-zisa &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=854189864750350&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 02:52<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ana.zechiu.1?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Nicu Si Ana Regiu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/browse\/mutual_friends?uid=100006734114497\">14 amis en commun<\/a><\/p>\n<p>\u202aBaliverne&#8230;.daca luam in calcul latinizarea noi armanii am aparut inaintea romanilor deci cun putem noi vorbi un dialect al limbii romane???? Limba romana este un dialect al limbii armane<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=854319164737420&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 06:53<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Nu e nici una, nici alta. Nici aromana dialect romanesc, nici invers.<\/p>\n<p>\u202a<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=854378064731530&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 10:00<\/a> \u00b7 Modifi\u00e9<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Bogdan Rusu Nu e vorba numai de criteriul intercomprehensibilitatii, n-ati citit cu atentia paralela cu limbile si popoarele slave rasaritene si ladina vs. latina. Nu exista niciun criteriu dupa care arom\u00e2na sa fie declarata dialect al rom\u00e2nei, nici macar al limbii gresit numite &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2na&#8221;.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\"><strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0Nicu Si Ana Regiu Da, latinizarea a avut loc mai intai in zonele traditionale ale aromanilor si apoi la nord de Dunare, dar asta nu are prea mare relevanta. Decat eventual pentru studiile genetice care ar arata ca aromanii sunt mai mult macedoneni antici (care erau greci), iliri, dardani sau peoni, decat traci. Dovada este mostenirea in aromana din latina a cuvantului Saruna din Salona, o forma latinizata si prescurtata din adevaratul nume, cel grecesc, al orasului, Thessalonike, Thessaloniki. Studiile genetice insa sunt in general politizate, nu m-ar mira sa existe\/sa apara unele care sa sustina ca aromanii sunt genetic, similari sau genetici cu romanii. Oricum, nu stiu ce relevanta au studiile genetice actuale pentru cum aratau aromanii genetic acum 2000 de ani, de atunci si romanii si aromanii s-au amestecat cu tot felul de alte popoare<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853886411447362&amp;reply_comment_id=854601558042514&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 13:31<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Care este diferenta dintre limba si dialect? Nu ca nu as sti dar niste argumente ar fi plauzibile&#8230;<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a \u201eo limb\u0103 este un dialect cu armat\u0103 \u0219i marin\u0103 militar\u0103\u201d (Max Weinreich)<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_853891391446864&amp;av=100004780328911\">2<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853891391446864&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R1%22%7D\">23 juin, 14:5<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Exact. Sa o calcam in picioare si sa o numim dialect, ce ii lipseste \u0163\u0163limbii armanesti&gt;&gt; de nu reprezinta o limba?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_853892184780118&amp;av=100004780328911\">\u202a1<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853892184780118&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D\">23 juin, 14:53<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?hc_location=ufi\">Sia Sya<\/a> cine a zis c\u0103 nu-i? eu zic c\u0103 argumentele tipului sunt slabe, ne\u0219tiin\u021bifice. pe de alt\u0103 parte, dac\u0103 nu e nicio distinc\u021bie \u00eentre limb\u0103 \u0219i dialect, de ce s\u0103 n-o numim dialect? \u0219i de ce ar conta \u0219tiin\u021bific cum o numim?<\/p>\n<p>J\u2019aime \u00b7 R\u00e9pondre \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853893174780019&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 14:55<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Nu neg argumentele dumneavostra vis-a-vis de ceea ce a scris autorul. Pe de alta parte exista o foarte mare distinctie intre limba si dialect. Ce ma intereseaza pe mine este ca avem doua premise si anume: 1. Care este legatura ce o transforma in dialect? si 2. Care este diferenta ce o transforma in limba?<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_853894198113250&amp;av=100004780328911\">1<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853894198113250&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 14:58<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?hc_location=ufi\">Sia Sya<\/a> Dup\u0103 \u0219tiin\u021ba mea, singurul criteriu opera\u021bional este cel al inteligibilit\u0103\u021bii mutuale, criteriu care nu este, \u00eens\u0103 absolut. Italiana este mai inteligibil\u0103 dec\u00e2t arom\u00e2na, de\u0219i este mai \u00eendep\u0103rtat\u0103 \u00een termeni de structuri gramaticale. C\u00e2nd aplic\u0103m criteriul comparativ, cum am f\u0103cut-o, el indic\u0103 ca arom\u00e2na e o limb\u0103 separat\u0103. C\u00e2nd \u00eel aplic\u0103m necomparativ, el indic\u0103 c\u0103 arom\u00e2na e un dialect, \u00eentruc\u00e2t arom\u00e2na este suficient de comprehensibil\u0103 pe un anumit registru lexical. A\u0219a, de exemplu, graiul b\u0103n\u0103\u021bean este practic incomprehensibil pe un anumit registru lexical. Dac\u0103 locutorul folose\u0219te un anumit registru lexical, evit\u00e2nd grecismele, \u00een particular, arom\u00e2na \u0219i rom\u00e2na sunt reciproc comprehensibile.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853895991446404&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:04<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Cum adica evitand grecismele? Vedeti aici intervine necunoasterea sau supracunoasterea unora cica avizati in domeniu. Limba armaneasca nu contine grecisme, sunt ale ei, ii apartin de drept. De aceea nu exista ca limba in grecia, ma rog aici sunt mai multe interese. Mentionam apoi in componenta destul de mare de turcisme, etc. Daca o sa va uitati pe documentele de inaintea scolilor romanesti din balcani atunci veti gasi adevarata limba armaneasca necomprehensibila cu cea romaneasca. Aceste grecisme si turcisme reprezinta o mare diferenta pe care din pacate nu o vedem. Aceasta este provocarea curenta a ligvistilor iar nu aceea de a presupune ceea ce este vizibil dar nu si elocvent.J\u2019aime \u00b7 R\u00e9pondre \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853895991446404&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:04<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?hc_location=ufi\">Sia Sya<\/a> \u201esunt ale ei, \u00eei apar\u021bin de drept\u201d &#8211; sigur c\u0103 da. graiul b\u0103n\u0103\u021bean are multe s\u00e2rbisme. ale lui, \u00eei apar\u021bin de drept. \u0219i mai important, de fapt. \u00een plus, vocabularul nu ajunge pentru a constitui o limb\u0103. \u0219i vocabularul rom\u00e2nei s-a \u00eemprosp\u0103tat a\u0219a de mult, c\u0103 a schimbat fizionomia preponderent slav\u0103 a limbii \u0219i i-a dat un aspect neo-fran\u021buzesc. a argumenta c\u0103 x este o alt\u0103 limb\u0103 pentru c\u0103, \u00een trecut, vocabularul era altfel e ca \u0219i cum ai spune c\u0103 rom\u00e2na din sec XV este alt\u0103 limb\u0103 dec\u00e2t cea din sec XXI<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a una peste alta, \u0219i cu asta \u00eenchei o discu\u021bie care, da altfel, nu m\u0103 pasioneaz\u0103, orice etnie are dreptul s\u0103 fie numit\u0103 \u0219i considerat\u0103 din punctul ei de vedere. dac\u0103 arom\u00e2nii se consider\u0103 etnie aparte, cu limb\u0103 aparte, atunci e corect s\u0103-i consider\u0103m a\u0219a. (noi, nu \u0219tiin\u021ba)<\/p>\n<p>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853902654779071&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:17<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Eu spun ca influenta romaneasca in balcani prin scoala romaneasca in balcani a transformat in totalitate limba. A transforma nu este acelasi lucru cu a influenta putin. Nu este aceeasi limba, s-a pierdut voit. Nu poti crea o istorie in jurul unor similitudini ligvistice. Grecia tara mama a armanilor nu este si nu a fost Romania. Sa nu incurcam borcanele. Interesele de pierdere a limbii au fost atinse, in acordul din 1922 Romania si-a castigat aportul prin armani cum si-a castigat Rusia ceea ce numim azi Moldova. Si ma opresc aici, aveti dreptate, e prea mult de spus&#8230;.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=853904218112248&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">23 juin, 15:26<\/a> \u00b7 Modifi\u00e9<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Sia Sya Limba-mama a arom\u00e2nei si rom\u00e2nei a fost numita &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103&#8221; si din motivul ca arom\u00e2nii nu aveau si nu au un stat al lor, independent, deci &#8220;lingvistii&#8221; rom\u00e2ni s-au considerat indreptatiti sa o numeasca asa, deoarece rom\u00e2nii erau privilegiati de soarta sa aiba o tara proprie. Din acest punct de vedere, nestiintific\/nelingvistic, s-ar putea parea ca au dreptate.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_854192111416792&amp;av=100004780328911\">\u202a1<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=854192111416792&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 02:58<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/minduita?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Sia Sya<\/strong><\/a>\u202a S-ar p\u0103rea, dup\u0103 cum spuneam nu po\u021bi forma o istorie falsa a unui popor pe ni\u0219te similitudini lingvistice. \u0218i dac\u0103 n-au tara hai sa-i asimilam ca doar ei au contribuit cam 90 la suta la formarea tuturor sistemelor rom\u00e2ne\u0219ti. Cum sa nu-i vrei, chiar a\u0219a.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_854336754735661&amp;av=100004780328911\">\u202a2<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=853889124780424&amp;reply_comment_id=854336754735661&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 07:50<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Sia Sya Grecismele n-ar trebui eliminate din aromana, nici turcismele. Grecisme exista din cele mai vechi timpuri si in aromana, si in rom\u00e2n\u0103, de exemplu: farmec, broasca, m\u00e2nie, cuvinte intrate inca din perioada asa-zisei limbi &#8220;proto-rom\u00e2ne&#8221; (sper ca n-am gresit exemplele, nu stiu daca cuvintele astea exista in aromana si\/sau meglenita\/istriana). In plus in aromana exista si cuvinte care contin sunetele grecesti dh, th si gh (nu ma apuc acum sa tastez literele corespunzatoare din alfabetul grecesc), adica dh (ca in engleza this, that), th (ca in engleza three) si gh (care nu exista in engleza). Dh si th exista si in albaneza unde se scriu chiar asa, dh, respectiv th. In plus exista si alte influente fonetice dar si gramaticale grecesti. Nu vad de ce s-ar renunta la grecisme, nici macar la turcisme..<\/p>\n<p>&nbsp;<\/p>\n<p><span class=\"\"><a class=\" UFICommentActorName\" dir=\"ltr\" href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\" data-ft=\"{&quot;tn&quot;:&quot;;&quot;}\" data-hovercard=\"\/ajax\/hovercard\/hovercard.php?id=100004780328911&amp;extragetparams=%7B%22is_public%22%3Afalse%2C%22hc_location%22%3A%22ufi_admin%22%7D\">Nicolas Trifon<\/a><\/span> <span data-ft=\"{&quot;tn&quot;:&quot;K&quot;}\"><span class=\"UFICommentBody _1n4g\">Neav\u00e2nd<\/span><\/span> acces la Web p\u00e2na acum, vin cam la spartul t\u00e2rgului.\u00a0\u00cen ultima sa interven\u0163ie, Bogdan Rusu zice\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0una peste alta, \u0219i cu asta \u00eenchei o discu\u021bie care, da altfel, nu m\u0103 pasioneaz\u0103, orice etnie are dreptul s\u0103 fie numit\u0103 \u0219i considerat\u0103 din punctul ei de vedere. Dac\u0103 arom\u00e2nii se consider\u0103 etnie aparte, cu limb\u0103 aparte, atunci e corect s\u0103-i consider\u0103m a\u0219a. (noi, nu \u0219tiin\u021ba)\u00a0\u00bb<\/p>\n<p>Dou\u0103 observa\u0163ii.\u00a0Primo i-a trebuit cam mult ca s\u0103 ajung\u0103 la aceast\u0103 concluzie, printre altele replica lui Sia Sya \u00ab Sa o c\u0103lc\u0103m in picioare si s\u0103 o numim dialect, ce \u00eei lipseste \u00ab\u00a0limbii armanesti\u00a0\u00bb de nu reprezint\u0103 o limb\u0103?\u00a0\u00bb\u00a0Secondo, si asta e cel mai important, el adaug\u0103 la final\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0noi, nu \u015ftiin\u0163a\u00a0\u00bb. Aici e o buba, dup\u0103 mine.<\/p>\n<p>Lingvi\u015ftii dota\u0163i cu un minim de bun sim\u0163 \u015ftiu foarte bine c\u0103 nu ei ci puterea politic\u0103 decide ce e limb\u0103 \u015fi ce e dialect. C\u00e2nd sunt de acord (din pasiune\/m\u00e2ndrie na\u0163ional\u0103 sau din interes de carier\u0103) cu decizia politic\u0103 ei mobilizeaz\u0103, \u00eentr-un mod mai mult sau mai putin subtil ca sa nu se compromita prea mult, argumentele din domeniul lor care par s\u0103 o justifice, c\u00e2nd nu, ei o critic\u0103, av\u00e2nd \u00eens\u0103 grij\u0103 sa nu provoace polemici din care \u015ftiu foarte bine c\u0103 pu pot s\u0103 ob\u0163in\u0103 c\u00e2\u015ftig de cauz\u0103. \u00cen Rom\u00e2nia aceste dou\u0103 pozi\u0163ii sunt ilustrate p\u00e2n\u0103 la caricatur\u0103\u00a0: prima de Matilda Caragiu Marioteanu, sau mai precis de cei care au simplificat tendentios teoriile ei, a doua de Ion Coteanu care, c\u00e2t de academician era, nu a fost niciodat&amp; luat \u00een serios pe aceasta tema. Sceptici \u00een ceea ce privesc neologisme precum str\u0103rom\u00e2na sau dacorom\u00e2na, care ocup\u0103 un loc strategic \u00een demonstra\u0163ile colegilor rom\u00e2ni, lingvistii str\u0103ini prefer\u0103 s\u0103 nu se pronun\u0163e.<\/p>\n<p>Bogdan Rusu are deci perfect\u0103 dreptate s\u0103 reaminteasc\u0103 c\u0103 nu exist\u0103 criterii \u015ftiin\u0163ifice suficiente (mai bine zis criterii proprii disciplinei specializate \u00een asemenea chestiuni) pentru delimtarea limbii de dialect. \u00cen consecin\u0163\u0103, chestiunea limb\u0103\/dialect nu poate fi discutat\u0103 f\u0103c\u00e2nd abstrac\u0163ie de dimensiunea ei politic\u0103. Din p\u0103cate, Bogdan Rusu evacueaz\u0103 sistematic aces aspect. \u00ab\u00a0Argumentele tipului sunt slabe, ne\u015ftiin\u0163ice\u00a0\u00bb, spune d\u00e2nsul, referindu-se la Dinu Popescu atunci c\u00e2nd acesta caut\u0103 s\u0103 demonstreze ca arom\u00e2na nu poate fi un dialect ale rom\u00e2nei precum nici ucraineana sau bielorusa nu sunt dialecte ale rusei.<\/p>\n<p>Desigur, \u00een m\u0103sura \u00een care hot\u0103r\u00e2rea privind caracterul de limba sau de dialect a unei vorbiri este de ordin politic \u00een ultim\u0103 analiz\u0103, Dinu Popescu nu are cum demonstra \u015ftiin\u0163ific c\u0103 arom\u00e2na nu este un dialect al rom\u00e2nei sau c\u0103 arom\u00e2na \u015fi rom\u00e2na sunt limbi aparte. Totu\u015fi, acela\u015fi Bogdan Rusu se \u00eentreab\u0103\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0Care este interesul s\u0103 botez\u0103m latina vernacular\u0103 a unei epoci \u201eroman\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103\u201d? \u0218i de ce ar fi \u0219tiin\u021bific gre\u0219it s\u0103 numim aceast\u0103 \u201eroman\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103\u201d str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103 sau proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103?\u00a0\u00bb \u00cen alte cuvinte, Bogdan Rusu consider\u0103 corect \u015ftiin\u0163ific faptul de a numi latina vernacular\u0103 din Balcani care va da na\u015ftere rom\u00e2nei, arom\u00e2nei, etc. printr-un neologism care con\u0163ine termenul rom\u00e2n\u00a0: \u00a0str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103, rom\u00e2n\u0103 comun\u0103, proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103. Aceasta este \u015fi pozi\u0163ia statului rom\u00e2n \u015fi a Academiei na\u0163ionale, c\u00e2nd proclam\u0103 c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii sunt rom\u00e2ni invoc\u00e2nd raportul de subordonare, demonstrat \u015ftiin\u0163ific, limb\u0103 (rom\u00e2na)\/dialect (arom\u00e2na). Reflex na\u0163ionalist rom\u00e2nesc, incon\u015ftient bine\u00een\u0163eles, din partea lui Bogdan Rusu\u00a0? Greu de zis, dar nu e imposibil.<\/p>\n<p>\u00cen schimb mi se pare important de eviden\u0163iat si felicitat Dinu Popescu pentru demersul lui care prezint\u0103 marele avantaj de a se plasa pe terenul argumentelor invocate de promotorii \u015fi garan\u0163ii teoriei care sus\u0163ine caracterul dialectal al arom\u00e2nei fa\u0163\u0103 de rom\u00e2n\u0103, de a demonta pas cu pas demonstra\u0163ia acestora. Aceste argumente se bazeaza pe no\u0163iuni \u015fi ra\u0163ionamente considerate azi pe bun\u0103 dreptate dep\u0103\u015fite, invalidate de progresele f\u0103cute \u00een diferitele bran\u015fe ale lingvisticii si a antropologiei din ultimele decenii. Uneori, ele sunt de-a dreptul ridicole privite din punctul de vedere al criterilor \u00een vigoare azi \u00een lingvistic\u0103 \u015fi antropologie. Cu ele e\u015fti \u00eens\u0103 confruntat \u00eentr-o \u0163ar\u0103 ca Rom\u00e2nia \u015fi fa\u0163\u0103 de ele trebuie s\u0103 iei pozi\u0163ie, nu po\u0163 s\u0103 faci abstrac\u0163ie de ele.<\/p>\n<p>Contra-argumentele lui Dinu Popescu nu au cum s\u0103 fie \u015ftiin\u0163ifice sau nu, ele atrag pur \u015fi simplu aten\u0163ia asupra unor contradic\u0163ii relativ u\u015for de detectat atunci c\u00e2nd le observi mai de aproape. Miza este imens\u0103\u00a0: de la manualele \u015fcolare la dic\u0163ionarele curente defini\u0163ia arom\u00e2nei ca dialect al rom\u00e2nei este omniprezenta, ideea c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii nu pot fi dec\u00e2t rom\u00e2ni pornind de la faptul c\u0103 ei vorbesc un dialect al rom\u00e2nei a fost invocat\u0103 acum c\u00e2\u0163iva ani pentru modificartea unei legi prin care se explicita ca arom\u00e2nii, cu\u015fovlahii, \u0163in\u0163arii, etc. sunt \u00ab\u00a0rom\u00e2ni de pretutindeni\u00a0\u00bb, ea a permis diploma\u0163ilor rom\u00e2ni \u00een post la Tirana \u015fi Skopje s\u0103 pretind\u0103 c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii din aceste \u0163\u0103ri constituie o minoritate rom\u00e2neasc\u0103, ea a pus be\u0163e \u00een roate eforturilor unor p\u0103rin\u0163i \u015fi profesori de a introduce cursuri op\u0163ionale \u00een limba arom\u00e2n\u0103, etc.<\/p>\n<p>\u00cen contribu\u0163ia sa Dinu Popescu caut\u0103 s\u0103 demonteze argumente invocate de mai bine de un secol \u00een Rom\u00e2nia, dar tot mai insistent ultimii ani, pentru a afirma c\u0103 arom\u00e2na este un dialect al rom\u00e2nei. Demonstra\u0163ia sa, pornind de la o compara\u0163ie cu situa\u0163ia limbilor ruse, ucrainene \u015fi bieloruse, este mai mult dec\u00e2t binevenit\u0103 \u00een contextul rom\u00e2nesc \u00een care dezbaterile pe aceast\u0103 tem\u0103 sunt tabu. Titlul contribu\u0163iei lui merge \u00eens\u0103 mai departe: Aromanians are not Romanians. Ca orice provocare, acest titlu comport\u0103 o asimilare inevitabil abuziv\u0103 : a vorbi o limb\u0103 diferit\u0103 de rom\u00e2n\u0103 nu \u00eenseamn\u0103 c\u0103 nu po\u0163i s\u0103 te consideri sau s\u0103 fii considerat rom\u00e2n, mai ales dac\u0103 tr\u0103ie\u015fti \u00een Rom\u00e2nia. \u00cen comentariul s\u0103u, cam sec, Bogdan Rusu nu pare s\u0103 \u0163in\u0103 cont de faptul c\u0103 o asemenea asimilare abuziv\u0103 r\u0103spunde unei alte asimil\u0103ri abuzive, aceea a ideologiei na\u0163ionale rom\u00e2ne\u015fti pentru care arom\u00e2nii nu pot fi dec\u00e2t rom\u00e2ni\u00a0: \u00ab\u00a0Cel mai deranjant este etnicismul autorului, un etnicism de secol XIX. Eu \u0219tiu c\u0103 o parte din belgieni, canadieni, elve\u021bieni au ca limb\u0103 matern\u0103 fraceza \u0219i, cu toate acestea, nu sunt considera\u021bi francezi.\u00a0Chiar dac\u0103 arom\u00e2nii ar vorbi un dialect al limbii rom\u00e2ne, asta n-ar face din ei rom\u00e2ni, dec\u00e2t sub aceast\u0103 presupozi\u021bie etnicist\u0103\u00bb<\/p>\n<p>Despre etnicism la arom\u00e2ni, nu la autorul incriminat, a\u015f avea multe de spus, dar m-am \u00eentins deja prea mult. Poate cu alt\u0103 ocazie.<\/p>\n<p>B<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\"><strong>ogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0Cu tot respectul, a numi str\u0103moa\u0219a limbii rom\u00e2ne str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103 nu are nimic gre\u0219it. Mai adineauri vorbeam cu o fost\u0103 coleg\u0103 care spune \u201epartenerul meu\u201d referindu-se la so\u021bul ei, ca s\u0103 nu-i jigneasc\u0103 pe cei care nu se pot c\u0103s\u0103tori. Eu nu fac precum colega. Limba rom\u00e2n\u0103 deriv\u0103 din &#8230; str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103. Arom\u00e2nii pot s\u0103-i spun\u0103 str\u0103-arom\u00e2n\u0103, dac\u0103 vor. Putem s\u0103-i spunem R.00, cum am mai spus, asta nu va \u00eempiedica-o s\u0103 fie str\u0103moa\u0219a limbii rom\u00e2ne, adic\u0103 str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103. Am mai spus, o repet, termenul \u201estr\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d e descriptiv, arat\u0103 doar aceast\u0103 rela\u021bie de filia\u021bie. N-am s\u0103 \u00eencetez s\u0103 spun \u201emaic\u0103-mea\u201d doar pentru c\u0103 am fra\u021bi. Repet \u0219i punctul meu de vedere afirmat mai sus \u0219i pe care mi se pare c\u0103 \u00eel trece\u021bi cu vederea: singurul sens clar al termenului \u201erom\u00e2n\u201d este cel de cet\u0103\u021bean al statului Republica Rom\u00e2nia. \u201eArom\u00e2n\u201d e un termen care n-are alt sens dec\u00e2t cel etnic (\u0219i s\u0103 v\u0103 aduc aminte c\u0103 \u0219i aceast\u0103 identitate e de fabrica\u021bie t\u00e2rzie?). Prin afirma\u021bia, necuantificat\u0103, \u201earom\u00e2nii sunt rom\u00e2ni\u201d se exprim\u0103 fie o idee tulbure, fie o idee fals\u0103. Ideea clar\u0103 este fals\u0103, \u00eentruc\u00e2t numai unii arom\u00e2ni sunt cet\u0103\u021beni rom\u00e2ni. Ideea tulbure este prea tulbure ca s\u0103 poat\u0103 fi discutat\u0103, dar b\u0103nuiala mea este c\u0103 e un non-sens.<\/p>\n<ul>\n<li><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\">R\u00e9pondre<\/a>\u00a0\u00b7\u00a0<a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=856467557855914&amp;reply_comment_id=856480197854650&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R2%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 11:36<\/a><\/li>\n<\/ul>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;fref=ufi\"><strong>Bogdan Rusu<\/strong><\/a>\u00a0\u00een leg\u0103tur\u0103 cu \u201enoi, nu \u0219tiin\u021ba\u201d: sugeram s\u0103 l\u0103s\u0103m chestiunile de taxonomie pe seama filologilor, noi nefiind filologi (cei trei amesteca\u021bi \u00een discu\u021bie). c\u0103 p\u00e2n\u0103 s-o pronun\u021ba \u0219tiin\u021ba decisiv, noi suntem datori s\u0103 privim minoritatea arom\u00e2n\u0103 din punctul ei de vedere.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a Situatia este complicata si de invadarea masiva a aromanei din Romania (mai putin a aromanei din Albania\/Macedonia\/Grecia\/Bulgaria de rom\u00e2nisme. Am observat ca si cuvinte relativ des folosite sunt inlocuite cu imprumuturi din romana, ceea ce poate duce aromana la un grad de inteligibilitate comuna cu romana (in viitor) mult mai mare, ceea ce poate servi ca argument pentru nationalistii romani. Sunte cunoscute argumentele de tipul: exista dialecte italiene\/germane mult mai diferite intre ele ca aromana de romana. Pe langa argumentele asa-zis &#8220;lingvistice&#8221; mai exista si pseudo-argumentul ca rom\u00e2nii au un stat propriu, argument nelingvistic care nu are nimic de a face cu dezbatere daca aromana e dialect sau limba. Nici ucrainenii si belarusii n-au avut un stat al lor in Uniunea Sovietica si totusi limbile lor erau recunoscute ca diferite de rusa chiar de catre autoritatile sovietice, de asemenea si existenta popoarelor ucrainean si bielorus.<\/p>\n<p>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=856467557855914&amp;reply_comment_id=856482267854443&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R0%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 11:43<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100012667891935&amp;fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Dinu Popescu<\/strong><\/a>\u202a <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/profile.php?id=100005681447536&amp;hc_location=ufi\">Bogdan Rusu<\/a> &#8220;suntem datori s\u0103 privim minoritatea arom\u00e2n\u0103 din punctul ei de vedere.&#8221; Corect, daca vor (unii dintre ei) sa se considere popor diferit nu are nimeni dreptul sa le-o interzica. In ceea ce priveste limba, este clar ca nu e un dialect rom\u00e2nesc.<\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/ufi\/reaction\/profile\/browser\/?ft_ent_identifier=853829398119730_856554497847220&amp;av=100004780328911\">\u202a1<\/a>\u202a \u00b7 <a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon\/posts\/853829398119730?comment_id=856467557855914&amp;reply_comment_id=856554497847220&amp;comment_tracking=%7B%22tn%22%3A%22R%22%7D\">Hier, \u00e0 14:02<\/a><\/p>\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/www.facebook.com\/nicolas.trifon?fref=ufi\">\u202a<strong>Nicolas Trifon <\/strong><\/a>Frumos\u00a0cuv\u00e2nt de \u00eencheiere!<\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Sia Sya, Bogdan Rusu, Dinu Popescu (autorul) si editorul articolului &#8220;Aromanians are NOT Romanians. Demonstration&#8221; au dezbatut pe aceasta tema pe Facebook imediat dupa postarea lui pe 23 iunie 2017.\u00a0[Cf. http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/dinu-popescu-aromanians-are-not-romanians-demonstration\/#more-1022]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1044","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-habari-news"],"yoast_head":"<!-- This site is optimized with the Yoast SEO plugin v25.4 - https:\/\/yoast.com\/wordpress\/plugins\/seo\/ -->\n<title>Aromanians are NOT Romanians : discutie pe Facebook - TRA ARMANAMI<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/aromanians-are-not-romanians-discutie-pe-facebook\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Aromanians are NOT Romanians : discutie pe Facebook - TRA ARMANAMI\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:description\" content=\"Sia Sya, Bogdan Rusu, Dinu Popescu (autorul) si editorul articolului &#8220;Aromanians are NOT Romanians. 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