{"id":1022,"date":"2017-06-18T06:52:33","date_gmt":"2017-06-18T05:52:33","guid":{"rendered":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/?p=1022"},"modified":"2017-07-04T08:42:18","modified_gmt":"2017-07-04T07:42:18","slug":"dinu-popescu-aromanians-are-not-romanians-demonstration","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/dinu-popescu-aromanians-are-not-romanians-demonstration\/","title":{"rendered":"Dinu Popescu : Aromanians are NOT Romanians ! Demonstration"},"content":{"rendered":"

Titlul,\u00a0asa cum e formulat de autor, \u00a0este \u00een engleza si enunta o teza care poate sa apara ca o provocare, textul e \u00eensa \u00een rom\u00e2na si constituie o contributie originala pe tema \u00ab\u00a0Arom\u00e2na este limba sau dialect\u00a0?\u00a0\u00bb \u00a0Argumentele autorului pornesc de la o comparatie \u00eentre situatia grupului limbilor slave orientale (bielorusa, ucraineana si rusa) si aceea a grupului de limbi romanice din sud-estul european (at\u00e2t arom\u00e2na si rom\u00e2na c\u00e2t si limbile vorbite \u00een Meglen si Istria). Absolvent al facultatii de istorie, pasionat de lingvistica si de limbi \u00een general, Dinu Popescu a reactionat prin “demonstratia” de mai jos\u00a0la articolele publicate\u00a0recent pe situl <\/em>Tr\u00e2 Arm\u00e2nami referitoare la felul \u00een care sunt prezentate curent \u00een Rom\u00e2nia raporturile \u00eentre arom\u00e2na si rom\u00e2na.<\/em><\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

Ce este aromana? Limba sau dialect?<\/strong>\u00a0A\u015fa-zi\u015fii lingvi\u015fti rom\u00e2ni sus\u0163in c\u0103 este un dialect al rom\u00e2nei comune, numit\u0103 \u015fi proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103 \u015fi str\u0103-rom\u00e2n\u0103, pretinz\u00e2nd c\u0103 arom\u00e2na este un dialect, eventual o limb\u0103 mai nou\u0103, desprins\u0103 din \u201cproto-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d \u015fi, deci, c\u0103 arom\u00e2nii, dac\u0103 sunt \u00eentr-adev\u0103r un popor (sic), sunt un popor mai recent, la origine ei fiind, chipurile, tot rom\u00e2ni. Din aceast\u0103 \u201cproto-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d ar fi rezultat 4 limbi: rom\u00e2n\u0103, arom\u00e2n\u0103, \u201cmegleno-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d \u015fi \u201cistro-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d. Fals: \u00een primul r\u00e2nd se poate pune \u00eentrebarea: de ce nu ar fi rom\u00e2na un dialect al \u201cproto-arom\u00e2nei\u201d? \u00cen al doilea r\u00e2nd faptul c\u0103 etnonimul\/cuv\u00e2ntul \u201crum\u00e2n\u201d pare a fi mai vechi, dpdv lingvistic dec\u00e2t cel de \u201carm\u00e2n\u201d\/\u201dr\u0103m\u0103n\u201d sau \u201crumer\u201d nu are nicio relevan\u0163\u0103 pentru denumirea proto-limbii comune, deoarece \u00een arom\u00e2n\u0103 exist\u0103 alte cuvinte, care sunt mai vechi dec\u00e2t cuvintele omoloage din rom\u00e2n\u0103, adic\u0103 sunt mai apropiate cronologic de etimoanele lor latine\u015fti, dec\u00e2t cele din rom\u00e2n\u0103. De exemplu arom\u00e2nul \u201coclju\u201d p\u0103streaz\u0103 \u201c-l\u201d-ul latinesc din \u201cocuLus\u201d, \u00eentr-o form\u0103 palatal\u0103, \u00een timp ce corespondentul rom\u00e2nesc, \u201cochi\u201d este mai recent, ap\u0103rut dup\u0103 pierderea \u201cl\u201d-ului muiat din arom\u00e2n\u0103. Aici se poate ad\u0103uga c\u0103 \u015fi cuv\u00e2ntul\/etnonim \u201crom\u00e2n\u201d din a\u015fa-zis\u0103 \u201cdaco-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d este mult mai recent dec\u00e2t forma ini\u0163ial\u0103, \u201crum\u00e2n\u201d, deci cuv\u00e2ntul arom\u00e2nesc \u201carm\u00e2n\u201d\/\u201dr\u0103m\u0103n\u201d este mai vechi dec\u00e2t cel \u201crom\u00e2n\u201d (\u201crum\u00e2n\u201d este un arhaism \u00een \u201cdaco-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d). Situa\u0163ia celor 4 limbi romanice: rom\u00e2n\u0103, arom\u00e2n\u0103, megleno-vlah\u0103 \u015fi istro-vlah\u0103 (cum ar trebui corect numite \u201cmegleno-rom\u00e2na\u201d \u015fi, respectiv, \u201cistro-rom\u00e2na\u201d) este perfect analoag\u0103 cu cea dintre RUS\u0103, belaRUS\u0103\/bieloRUS\u0103, RUSyn\u0103 \u015fi ucrainean\u0103, cele 4 limbi slave de est. 3 dintre ele p\u0103streaz\u0103 glotonimul \u201crus-\u201c, la fel cum 2 dintre limbile romanice de est p\u0103streaz\u0103 amintirea cuv\u00e2ntului latin \u201cRomanus\u201d \u00een numele lor: arom\u00e2na \u015fi rom\u00e2na. Asta nu \u00eenseamn\u0103 \u00eens\u0103 c\u0103 rusa ar fi un dialect belarus\/rusyn, nici m\u0103car un dialect al belarusei\/rusynei vechi, nici c\u0103 belarusa ar fi un dialect rus\/rusyn, nici c\u0103 rusyna ar fi un dialect rus\/belarus. Toate provin din slava veche de est. Belarusa e o limba destul de diferit\u0103 de rus\u0103, fiind mult mai apropiat\u0103 de ucrainean\u0103 dec\u00e2t de rus\u0103. C\u00e2t despre rusyn\u0103, este foarte diferit\u0103 de rus\u0103, unii lingvi\u015fti consider\u00e2nd-o dialect al limbii slovace sau dialect de tranzi\u0163ie slovaco-ucrainean (\u00een afar\u0103 de cei care o consider\u0103 dialect ucrainean sau limb\u0103 de sine st\u0103t\u0103toare), deci dialect al unei limbi vest-slave (slovaca). Este ca \u015fi cum ai zice c\u0103 fosta limba dalmat\u0103 era un dialect rom\u00e2nesc, dalmata \u015fi rom\u00e2na f\u0103c\u00e2nd parte din grupe diferite de limbi romanice. De men\u0163ionat c\u0103 \u015fi ucraineana este foarte diferit\u0103 de rus\u0103, mai diferit\u0103 dec\u00e2t este arom\u00e2na de rom\u00e2n\u0103, dar mai asem\u0103n\u0103toare dec\u00e2t este rom\u00e2na cu istro-vlaha. Desigur c\u0103 se poate obiecta c\u0103 limba belarus\u0103 exist\u0103 dar poporul belarus nu, deoarece belaru\u015fii se consider\u0103 ru\u015fi. Acest lucru e par\u0163ial adev\u0103rat, aproape to\u0163i belaru\u015fii se consider\u0103 ru\u015fi iar, actualmente, limba lor matern\u0103 nu mai este belarusa, ci rusa, unii av\u00e2nd doar cuno\u015ftin\u0163e de belarus\u0103 ca limba str\u0103in\u0103, al\u0163ii deloc. Exist\u0103 \u00eens\u0103 \u015fi belaru\u015fi care au limba matern\u0103 belarusa \u015fi se consider\u0103 diferi\u0163i etnic de ru\u015fi. \u00cen plus, mult mai mul\u0163i rusyni (procentual) se consider\u0103 diferi\u0163i etnic at\u00e2t de ru\u015fi, c\u00e2t \u015fi de ucraineni. Un alt argument este c\u0103 exist\u0103 limbi mult mai asem\u0103n\u0103toare \u00eentre ele dec\u00e2t rom\u00e2na cu arom\u00e2na care nu sunt considerate de nimeni a fi una dialectul alteia, de exemplu: ceha \u015fi slovaca, ucraineana \u015fi belarusa, norvegiana\/daneza \u015fi suedeza (ca s\u0103 nu mai vorbim c\u0103 norvegiana este extrem de similar\u0103 cu daneza, cam ca portugheza de galiciana, o limb\u0103 pe care unii o consider\u0103 dialect portughez; \u00eentr-adev\u0103r p\u00e2n\u0103 \u00een urm\u0103 cu vreo 70-80 de ani norvegiana era considerat\u0103 dialect danez). Arom\u00e2na este deci diferit\u0103 de rom\u00e2n\u0103, fiind o limba distinct\u0103 at\u00e2t dpdv istoric, diacronic, c\u00e2t \u015fi sincronic, dpdv al criteriului asem\u0103n\u0103rii actuale cu rom\u00e2na, criteriul inteligibilit\u0103\u0163ii mutuale (sau al intercomprehensibilit\u0103\u0163ii). Arom\u00e2na \u015fi rom\u00e2na sunt la fel de asem\u0103n\u0103toare ca portugheza cu spaniola, poate doar cu pu\u0163in mai asem\u0103n\u0103toare. R\u0103m\u00e2ne doar chestiunea stabilirii unui nume pentru proto-limba comun\u0103 din care au rezultat arom\u00e2na, rom\u00e2na, megleno-vlaha \u015fi istro-vlaha, deoarece niciuna dintre denumirile care sugereaz\u0103 o prioritate temporal\u0103 a \u201cdaco-rom\u00e2nei\u201d nu e corect\u0103. Exist\u0103 mai multe variante: roman\u0103 (nu rom\u00e2n\u0103!) est-balcanic\u0103 (pe modelul reto-romanei, pe care nimeni nu o nume\u015fte reto-rom\u00e2n\u0103), proto-roman\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103, romanic\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103 \u015fi proto-romanic\u0103 est-balcanic\u0103. Este adev\u0103rat c\u0103 istro-vlaha se vorbe\u015fte actualmente \u00een vestul Peninsulei Balcanice, dar nu acesta este arealul ei ini\u0163ial. Atributul de \u201cest-balcanic\u0103\u201d este necesar pentru a evita confuzia cu dalmata. R\u0103m\u00e2ne de asemenea de g\u0103sit un nume adecvat pentru \u201cistro-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d \u015fi \u201cmegleno-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d, deoarece nici glotonimele \u201cistro-vlah\u0103\u201d \u015fi, respectiv, \u201cmegleno-vlah\u0103\u201d nu sunt prea potrivite, fiindc\u0103 \u201cvlahi\u201d sunt numi\u0163i \u015fi rom\u00e2nii (vorbitorii de a\u015fa-zis\u0103 \u201cdaco-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d) din Valea Timocului (\u00een Serbia \u015fi Bulgaria), de\u015fi, din c\u00e2te \u015ftiu eu, \u015fi vorbitorii de dalmat\u0103 erau numi\u0163i vlahi de c\u0103tre popoarele \u00eenvecinate. Pentru incorectul \u201cmacedo-rom\u00e2ni\u201d (care sugereaz\u0103 c\u0103 ar fi vorba despre rom\u00e2nii din Macedonia \u015fi nu despre un popor diferit) exist\u0103 cuv\u00e2ntul rom\u00e2nesc \u201carom\u00e2ni\u201d, ce evit\u0103 confuziile. \u201cMegleno-vlah\u201d\/\u201dIstro-vlah\u201d nu ar elimina confuziile, \u00eentruc\u00e2t ar sugera c\u0103 este vorba despre acela\u015fi tip de vlahi ca cei din Valea Timocului, care locuiesc \u00een regiunea Meglenului \u015fi, respectiv, a Istriei. Cuv\u00e2ntul meglenit pentru megleno-vlah este \u201cvla\u201d (f\u0103r\u0103 \u201c-h\u201d) sau \u201cvlau\u032f\u201d, dar nu se poate zice \u201climba vla\u0103\/vlaie. S-ar putea folosi \u201climba meglenit\u0103\u201d \u015fi \u201cpoporul meglenit\u201d folosindu-ne de un cuv\u00e2nt care exist\u0103 deja (meglenit). C\u00e2t despre istro-vlahi s-ar putea folosi \u201cpoporul jei\u0103nean\u201d \u015fi \u201climba jei\u0103nean\u0103\u201d, de\u015fi acesta este numele doar al unei p\u0103r\u0163i ai istro-vlahilor, ceilal\u0163i auto-denumindu-se vlahi (\u00een limba lor vl\u00e5\u0161). Av\u00e2nd \u00eens\u0103 \u00een vedere c\u0103 \u015fi unii, \u015fi ceilal\u0163i vorbesc aceea\u015fi limb\u0103, se poate extinde endonimul de jei\u0103neni (\u017eej\u00e5nci) \u015fi asupra celorlal\u0163i. Se poate utiliza mai simplu “istrieni” \u015fi (limba) istrian\u0103. (Pentru vlahii din Valea Timocului ar fi mai corect\u0103 utilizarea numelui de \u201cvalahi\u201d, care aminte\u015fte de Valahia (\u0162ar\u0103 Rom\u00e2neasc\u0103 = Muntenia + Oltenia), deoarece ei vorbesc rom\u00e2na, a\u015fa-zisul \u201cdialect daco-rom\u00e2n al limbii rom\u00e2ne\u201d). O ultim\u0103 precizare: c\u00e2nd am spus c\u0103 \u201crum\u00e2n\u201d este un cuv\u00e2nt mai vechi dec\u00e2t \u201carm\u00e2n\/r\u0103m\u0103n\u201d, dpdv al legilor fonetice care au guvernat transformarea cuvintelor latine\u015fti \u00een rom\u00e2ne\u015fti\/arom\u00e2ne\u015fti, eu doar am presupus acest lucru, neav\u00e2nd cuno\u015ftin\u0163e at\u00e2t de vaste de fonetic\u0103 istoric\u0103 rom\u00e2neasc\u0103\/arom\u00e2n\u0103. A\u015fa cum am demonstrat mai sus, un singur cuv\u00e2nt, fie el \u015fi etnonim, nu poate servi ca baz\u0103 pentru afirma\u0163ia c\u0103 arom\u00e2na ar fi un dialect al rom\u00e2nei, deoarece exist\u0103 cuvinte \u00een arom\u00e2n\u0103 mai vechi ca omoloagele lor din rom\u00e2n\u0103, ceea ce ar \u00eensemna c\u0103 \u015fi rom\u00e2na este un dialect al arom\u00e2nei. De fapt, ambele limbi provin dintr-o limb\u0103-mam\u0103 pe care e incorect s\u0103 o numim at\u00e2t \u201cproto-rom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d, c\u00e2t \u015fi \u201cproto-arom\u00e2n\u0103\u201d.<\/p>\n

O ultima adaugire<\/strong>: in ucraineana limba rusa se numeste \u0420\u043e\u0441\u0456\u0439\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 (rosijs’ka mova), in timp ce slava comuna de est (limba-mama a rusei, belarusei, rusynei si ucrainenei) se numeste \u0414\u0430\u0432\u043d\u044c\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 (davn’orus’ka mova) iar belarusa \u0411\u0456\u043b\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 (bilorus’ka mova). Ucrainenii nu numesc belarusa “rusa alba”, nici slava comuna de est “rusa veche”. “Rusa alba” s-ar traduce prin \u0411\u0456\u043b\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0456\u0439\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 (bilorosijs’ka mova), iar “rusa veche” \u0414\u0430\u0432\u043d\u044c\u043e\u0440\u043e\u0441\u0456\u0439\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 (davn’orosijs’ka mova). Astfel nu se face nicio confuzie intre limba-mama si una dintre fiicele ei. Numele belarusei si al slavei vechi de est in ucraineana au intr-adevar acelasi element final (-\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430) dar sunt suficient de clar diferentiate prin faptul ca una se numeste “\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 alba”, iar cealalta “\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 veche”. Daca limba rusa s-ar numi “\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430” si nu “\u0420\u043e\u0441\u0456\u0439\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430” s-ar intelege ca rusa este singura descendenta directa a vechii slave de est, iar belarusa si ucraineana ar fi descendente indirecte, fiind derivate ulterior din rusa, cand belarusei i s-a adaugat atributul de “alba”, iar ucraineana si-a schimbat complet numele. Si in belarusa se face o astfel de distinctie fina intre rusa si slava veche de est, prima fiind numita \u0420\u0430\u0441\u0435\u0439\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430, iar cea de-a doua \u0421\u0442\u0430\u0440\u0430\u0436\u044b\u0442\u043d\u0430\u0440\u0443\u0441\u043a\u0430\u044f \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430.<\/p>\n

Inca un argument pentru faptul ca limba-mama a romanei, aromanei, meglenitei si istrienei\/jeianenei nu ar trebui sa fie numita nici proto-rom\u00e2n\u0103, nici proto-arom\u00e2n\u0103, ci romana (dupa modelul reto-romanei, careia, asa cum am spus, nimeni nu ii spune “reto-rom\u00e2n\u0103”) est-balcanica, proto-romana est-balcanica, romanica est-balcanica sau proto-romanica est-balcanica.<\/p>\n

Dinu Popescu, iunie 2017<\/p>\n

PS <\/strong>In grupul limbilor slave orientale este inclusa si rusyna, ca limba independenta, dupa multi lingvisti. In ucraineana exista cuvinte asemanatoare dar diferite pentru “limba rusyna”, “limba rusa”, “limba belarusa” si “limba slava veche de est” (ultima fiind limba mama a primelor 3, dar si a ucrainenei)<\/p>\n

limba rusyna = \u0420\u0443\u0441\u0438\u043d\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430<\/p>\n

limba rusa = \u0420\u043e\u0441\u0456\u0439\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430<\/p>\n

limba belarusa = \u0411\u0456\u043b\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430<\/p>\n

limba slava veche de est = \u0414\u0430\u0432\u043d\u044c\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430<\/p>\n

Doar limba belarusa si slava veche de est au acelasi element de baza in numele lor: -\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430, dar belarusa are atributul \u0411\u0456\u043b\u043e- (alba), ceea ce arata ca nu e singura descendenta directa a slavei comune de est, ci e pe acelasi plan cu celelalte 3 limbi. In caz contrar, ar fi trebuit ca slava veche de est sa se numeasca in ucraineana: \u0414\u0430\u0432\u043d\u044c\u043e\u0411\u0456\u043b\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430, adica “belarusa veche”, si nu \u0414\u0430\u0432\u043d\u044c\u043e\u0440\u0443\u0441\u044c\u043a\u0430 \u043c\u043e\u0432\u0430 cum se numeste de fapt, adica limba veche rus’ (din Rusia kieveana, numita in ucraineana \u0420\u0443\u0441\u044c\/Rus’, spre deosebire de Rusia actuala care e \u0420\u043e\u0441\u0456\u044f\/Rosija). Sper ca nu am fost prea tehnic \ud83d\ude42<\/p>\n

Eu am facut o paralela intre un subgrup de limbi slave si unul de limbi romanice, ambele descinzand din cate o proto-limba comuna si nu direct din slava comuna, respectiv latina (proto-limba lor comuna, adica limba-mama a lor este la randul ei o limba-fiica a slavei comune si a latinei). Niciun popor\/limba slav oriental nu se poate erija in descendentul\/descendenta prioritar(a) si unicul direct a(l) acelui popor-tata\/limba-mama, ci toti\/toate sunt egali, fiind descendenti\/descendente direct. Asa si cu aromana si romana. Nici aromana nu e derivata din roman, nici invers, ci amandoua sunt provenite direct dintr-o limba-mama. Alt lucru in comun al rusilor, bielorusilor si rusynilor (fara ucraineni) este etnonimul\/glotonimul asemanator, format de la radacina rus-, la fel cu romanii si aromanii (armanji, rramanji) au etnonimul\/glotonimul derivat din Romanus din latina, ceea ce nu inseamna ca aromanii si romanii sunt acelasi popor. Argumentul ca, asa cum romanescului \u201cochi\u201d ii corespunde (se traduce) in aromana \u201coclju\u201d, tot asa romanescului \u201crom\u00e2n\u201d\/rum\u00e2n\u201d ii corespunde in aromana \u201carman\/rraman\u201d, folosit pentru a \u201cdovedi\u201d ca aromana si romana ar fi doua dialecte ale aceleiasi limbi nu sta in picioare, asa cum se vede din situatia asemanatoare a limbilor slave.<\/p>\n

 <\/p>\n

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Titlul,\u00a0asa cum e formulat de autor, \u00a0este \u00een engleza si enunta o teza care poate sa apara ca o provocare, textul e \u00eensa \u00een rom\u00e2na si constituie o contributie originala pe tema \u00ab\u00a0Arom\u00e2na este limba sau dialect\u00a0?\u00a0\u00bb \u00a0Argumentele autorului pornesc de la o comparatie \u00eentre situatia grupului limbilor slave orientale (bielorusa, ucraineana si rusa) si […]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":4,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"open","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"standard","meta":{"_monsterinsights_skip_tracking":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_active":false,"_monsterinsights_sitenote_note":"","_monsterinsights_sitenote_category":0,"footnotes":""},"categories":[3],"tags":[],"class_list":["post-1022","post","type-post","status-publish","format-standard","hentry","category-habari-news"],"yoast_head":"\nDinu Popescu : Aromanians are NOT Romanians ! Demonstration - TRA ARMANAMI<\/title>\n<meta name=\"robots\" content=\"index, follow, max-snippet:-1, max-image-preview:large, max-video-preview:-1\" \/>\n<link rel=\"canonical\" href=\"http:\/\/www.armanami.org\/blog\/dinu-popescu-aromanians-are-not-romanians-demonstration\/\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:locale\" content=\"en_US\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:type\" content=\"article\" \/>\n<meta property=\"og:title\" content=\"Dinu Popescu : Aromanians are NOT Romanians ! 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